Jennifer Kerns, spokeswoman for the Yes on 8 campaign, estimates that 15,000 of her fellow lying scumbags — mostly Catholics, Evangelicals, and Mormons — canvassed voters in California this past weekend, spreading lies and disinformation in the name of Jesus and The Family. These good Christians believe Jesus hates queers as much as they do, and that lying their asses off about Proposition 8 is a good way to serve God. Most of the lying scumbags interviewed by the AP seem to be Mormons, like High Priest Justin Hirst and his wife Christina.
One of the pamphlets they’re distributing is called “Six Consequences If Proposition 8 Fails.” Let’s take a look at it.
1. Children in public schools will be taught that both traditional marriage and same-sex marriage are okay.
The California Education Code already requires that health education classes instruct children about marriage. (§51890) Therefore, if the definition of marriage is changed, children will be taught that marriage is a relation between any two adults. There will be serious clashes between the secular school system and the right of parents to teach their children their own values and beliefs. |
NOT TRUE. What the Education Code says is that in schools that have a state-funded comprehensive health education program, high school students should learn “Family health and child development, including the legal and financial aspects and responsibilities of marriage and parenthood.” The Education Code also mandates that in such state-funded programs, “Instruction and materials shall teach respect for marriage and committed relationships.”
That’s right. Even before same-sex marriage became legal in California, the Education Code already mandated teaching respect for committed relationships, and not just for marriage, with no stipulation that the relationships mentioned must be heterosexual relationships.
If it passes, Proposition 8 won’t change the Education Code. It won’t change the “legal and financial aspects and responsibilities of marriage and parenthood.” The only thing that will change is that some people will be excluded from marriage to satisfy the bigotry of certain religious fanatics.
2. Churches will be sued if they refuse to allow same-sex marriage ceremonies in their religious buildings that are open to the public. Ask whether your pastor, priest, minister, bishop, or rabbi is ready to perform such marriages in your chapels and sanctuaries. |
NOT TRUE. This one is such a blatant lie that it’s amazing they even tried it. The fact that a marriage is legal doesn’t mean any clergyman at all is required to officiate at such a marriage. Religious leaders are free to impose their extra-legal religious requirements on people they marry, and will remain free to do so if Proposition 8 doesn’t pass. The law doesn’t require clergy to officiate at the marriage of divorced people, for instance, or at marriages between people of different faiths, even though such marriages are perfectly legal.
On the other hand, it’s possible churches that rent their buildings to the public might be sued for discrimination. Nothing about Proposition 8 will change that.
3. Religious adoption agencies will be challenged by government agencies to give up their long-held right to place children only in homes with both a mother and a father. Catholic Charities in Boston has already closed its doors because of the legalization of same-sex marriage in Massachusetts. |
NOT TRUE. Adoption by same-sex couples was legal in California even before same-sex marriage became legal. Adoption services had already been successfully sued in California for discriminating against same-sex couples even before same-sex marriage became legal. Adoption and marriage are separate issues. Proposition 8 will not affect adoption law in California, and will not provide cover to agencies that discriminate against same-sex couples.
4. Religions that sponsor private schools and which provide housing for married students will be required to provide housing for same-sex couples, even if it runs counter to church doctrine, or lose tax exemptions and benefits. |
NOT TRUE. California state law already prohibits discrimination based on sexual orientation and discrimination based on marital status. Federal law prohibits neither. Neither state law nor federal law about discrimination will change, regardless of whether Proposition 8 passes or not.
5. Ministers who preach against same-sex marriages will be sued for hate speech and could be fined by the government. It has already happened in Canada, one of six countries that have legalized gay marriage. |
NOT TRUE. Proposition 8 has nothing whatever to do with hate speech. Hate speech was prohibited under the Criminal Code of Canada for many years before same-sex marriage became legal, and prosecutions against people who promote hate speech have nothing at all to do with the legalization of same-sex marriage. Fortunately for the Mormons, Catholics, and Evangelicals, hate speech is perfectly legal in the United States, and Christians will remain free to spread hate in the name of Jesus regardless of whether Proposition 8 passes or not.
6. It will cost you money. A change in the definition of marriage will bring a cascade of lawsuits. Even if courts eventually find in favor of a defender of traditional marriage (highly improbable given today’s activist judges), think of the money – your money, your church contributions – that will have to be spent on legal fees. |
NOT TRUE. Your church will be exactly as liable to legal action for discrimination as it is now, regardless of whether Proposition 8 passes or not. If your church fires the janitor for being gay, your church may or may not be sued for that action. Nothing about Proposition 8 will change that.
In short, the Christians of Yes on 8 aren’t informing anybody of the effects of the passage or failure of Proposition 8. When it comes to Proposition 8, they’re just lying. That doesn’t mean there’s no value in their efforts, though. They’ve been quite successful in educating people about their religions, especially the fact that while it’s not absolutely necessary to be a hateful, lying scumbag to be a Catholic, Evangelical, or Mormon, it certainly helps.
I don’t mean to paint all Catholics, Evangelicals and Mormons with the same brush. Obviously, not all Mormons, Catholics, and Evangelicals are hateful, lying scumbags. Many of them are gentle, loving people who would never hate anybody, tell barefaced lies, or do anything to harm their neighbor. They just think it brings them closer to God to support, with their time and money, the people who do.
If the Yes on 8 christianists catch you at home, don’t slam the door or turn them away. Instead, invite them in. Fix them a cup of tea. (Herbal, of course.) Make sure you boil the water slowly – it tastes better that way. Sit them down and ask LOTS of questions. When they ask you a question, think it over VERY carefully. I’d suggest taking at least two or three minutes to respond. You don’t want to give any rash or ill-considered answers. If they hurry you, just say “I’m considering it prayerfully.” Before they leave, ask if they would join you in a moment of prayer. Make sure YOU lead the prayer. And remember, God has all the time in the world, so don’t leave anything out. If they spend less than an hour in your house, you’ve failed.
Awesome post. I am growing so tired of seeing these six lies everywhere. I wish I could forward your post to every Mormon in California.
Would you give me permission to x-post your post over at my place? You’d be fully credited, of course.
According to Frank Schubert, ‘Yes on 8’ campaign manager, the mobilization of LDS (Mormon) volunteers could save his campaign up to $26 million in costs related to micro-targeting persuadable voters.
Micro-Targeting Mormons:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/8/24/61932/7927/663/573944
So much for campaign finance rules.
Chino – feel free. It’s gratifying that you think what I said is worth repeating. 😀
Proposition 8 protects the people’s will and overturns activist judges.
In 2000 over 61% of Californians voted in favor of Proposition 22 to reaffirm that only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California. However, because this language wasn’t put into the state Constitution when it was approved, four activist judges from San Francisco wrongly overturned the people’s vote. In November 2008, Proposition 8 gives California voters the opportunity to reverse the court’s decision and restore the definition of marriage as between a man and a woman in the state Constitution.
Proposition 8 is simple and straightforward.
Proposition 8 contains the same 14 words that were previously approved in 2000 by over 61% of California voters: “Only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California.” By putting these words directly into the state Constitution, the court cannot strike them down as unconstitutional.
Proposition 8 is about preserving marriage; it’s not an attack on the gay lifestyle.
Proposition 8 doesn’t take away any rights or benefits from gay or lesbian domestic partners. Under California law, “domestic partners shall have the same rights, protections and benefits” as married spouses. (Family Code §297.5.) There are no exceptions to this. Proposition 8 will not change this.
Proposition 8 protects our children.
Proposition 8 protects our children from being taught in public schools that same-sex marriage is the same as traditional marriage. In health education classes, state law requires teachers to instruct children as young as kindergarteners about marriage. (Education Code §51890.) If the same-sex marriage ruling is not overturned, teachers will be required to teach young children that there is no difference between gay marriage and traditional marriage.
Your post and those who agree with you prove that people will believe whatever they are fed on the internet.
You didn’t even comment on the Catholic Church of Boston! Shame on you for not doing your homework! See http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/aug/03/religious-liberty-64765003/ for proof that the lawsuits will happen and my tax dollars will be fighting for my religious rights!
I Can not beleive that this person is actually saying that the Mormons are lying about the consequences of redefinition of Marriage in California. If you are going to accuse someone of lying, at least get your facts straight. The fact is that more than any of you know will forever be changed. My Father is a supreme Court Judge for many years and He knows for a fact that this will forever change society as we know it. Please be at least Open minded for truth is truth no matter what your personal agenda may be. Let us not Inflict upon society their basic right to Freedom of Religion according to their faith. You’re the LIAR and Deceitful One. And everyone that has any comomn sense and does any kind of research on the subject will know just as I do.
eb – thx for ur permission n hope u keep up the good work here.
The California Majority Report has a short piece up today on this topic:
Marriage Equality Foes Peddling Lies
http://www.camajorityreport.com/index.php?module=articles&func=display&ptid=9&aid=3389
As folks become more aware of these 6 Lies, I think you’re going to see a groundswell of disgust with the “Yes on 8” side’s mendacity.
The “information” that these volunteers are spreading under the title “Six Consequences if Proposition 8 Fails” is absolutely false.
How does outright lying help or protect anyone?
Isn’t spreading falsehoods an utter betrayal of your civic duty?
This election will be over in November but the memory of this false witness will remain long after.
“Yes on 8” Side Is Bearing False Witness
Shame.
Thank you for your blog post. I saw another person’s blog where she simply repeated the erroneous claims of the Prop 8 crowd. I ran through the list noting that they were wrong.
She deleted my comment and then edited to her blog post to say that comments that disagree with her position will be deleted. (Her post is at http://swannscraps.blogspot.com/2008/08/protect-marriage.html .)
And Angelica who posted above needs to read the post on this page again. Carefully.
Yes, Angelica, the Prop 8 crowd is lying to us all.
Notalone – I don’t know you, so I have no way of knowing whether you’re an intentional liar, or a sincere person who is woefully misinformed. Either way, you’re wrong and you’re spreading lies, knowingly or unknowingly.
Mike – I’m aware of the situation with Catholic Charities in Massachusetts. The fact remains that this situation is possible, and indeed likely, regardless of whether same-sex marriage is legal. Proposition 8 is not relevant to adoption law.
John D – Of course she deleted your comments. That’s how the haters operate. They cannot tolerate dissent, and they cannot tolerate the truth.
Just a heads up: Mike Huckabee recently gave an interview in which he holds Mitt Romney responsible for implementing gay marriage in Massachusetts.
Video
Welcome to the ProtectMarriage.com coalition.
I wish that more rank and file members of the LDS (Mormon) church would realize: the anti-gay coalition they’ve joined in California is one that includes folks who – given the chance – would vote their church out of existence.
Folks like Mike Huckabee and his Evangelical buddies.
Angelica–American changed in the same way it was changed when interracial marriage was allowed? If your Supreme court father is afraid of change maybe he should find another line of work. The world changes and we do our best to stay good people and make good decisions.
Every decade we get a little less bigoted. Yeah for that and shame on those of you for making this about anything other than civil rights.
Thank you for this post. Those 6 points are complete lies with no evidentiary support. They are just derived from fear.
Those of you supporting Prop 8 are buried in LIES. How can you even think of supporting something as ridiculous as this. The fight for same-sex marriage parallels the fight for equal rights to vote regardless of ethnicity and gender, for civil rights, for inter-racial marriages. How is same-sex marriage any different from these views?
Supportors of Prop 8 base their judgement on religious views. That is just stupid. The United States is a nation of freedom of religion, and separates religion from politics. You are all going against the true American values by supporting such BIGOTRY.
NO ON PROPOSITION 8
Unfortunately there is no amount of evidence that can change a mind set brainwashed by religion. It’s no wonder the worst wars that last for centuries are religious wars.
I find it ironic that the Catholic Church is spending so much money on Prop 8. After spending millions of dollars to cover up their clergy sex abuse scandals and billions of dollars to settle those cases, the money spent on Prop 8 is probably chump change to the church.
Maybe the church should go on a campaign to discourage same sex couples from using birth control so we won’t have so many gays.
I got a call from the Mormons and rather than giving in to my urge to curse them out, I instead made them think I was “on the fence” even though I am staunchly against Prop 8. I was able to keep them on the phone about 20 minutes before they gave up. I figure that was at least 5-10 other calls that didn’t get made. I would urge everyone else to do the same.
I’m also thinking about “volunteering” to drive people from religious senior homes to the polls, then not showing up on election day.
Your first two sentences contain the phrases “lying scumbags” and “These good Christians believe Jesus hates queers as much as they do” Wow. Who’s hateful and lying here?
That’s really easy to figure out, Christy.
The ones who spread lies to harm their neighbors — the Mormons and their Christian friends — are the ones who are hateful and lying.
Feel free to stop by anytime you get confused and need the obvious pointed out.